Roots Archives Forum

Like I said, piracy is rife in reggae music, and music in general. And that's not just trading tracks, but people publishing stuff without the clear permission of the originator.

Even publishing or sharing mix-ups of official releases is illegal. My son runs a dance music mix website. DJs upload their mixes and playlists to his site, usually recorded from officially released vinyl. He constantly gets messages from record labels asking him to remove stuff. However, the more enlightened labels understand that his website can actually act as a promotional tool for their releases and have actually encouraged him to continue.

Yep - don't forget that in the early days of radio - it was actually illegal to play peoples stuff without direct permission - that is, I believe, when laws were passed to allow general licensing for an agreed payment. However, once the industry realised that the radio helped their sales and swelled numbers at concerts, they started to pay the more popular radio stations to play their stuff! (known as Payola).

MightyZ

www.myspace.com/mightyzallstars

That is the ##$%^* problem DJ's and collectors have no respect and buying those Boomboclaat bootlegs.

Cech Republic pressing plant has to beware that some people will stop them it's happing ina UK.


Yes there are vinyl factory who cares about all that stuff without legal papers no vinyl.


Lion

I avoid as much as possible pirate labels. And 100% of the music I own in paid for, I don't do downloads.

For instance, I won't buy anything on the Abraham label because of bad stories about his operation.

However, if I stuck rigidly to this code I'd probaly have to sell most of my Trojan stuff, as well as many many other records!

A man (or woman!) should get paid for the work he's done and that means piracy is just another type of exploitation and slavery.

Lion wrote:Cech Republic pressing plant has to beware that some people will stop them it's happing ina UK.

Lion

hum lion... you're completely wrong on this one!

who said cech republic's vinyl plant presses pirates?

get in touch with some of dem and you'll understand they're much more serious than uk vinyl plants (not only about the quality)... all "no copyright" material I got came from england! and bought several white labels in record shops!!!! if you are from england or the uk, you cannot ignore this is a fact. so please leave the cech republic alone if you don't know a single thing about their vinyl plants! they are much more honest than uk shops and vinyl plants.

do you now why most of reggae white/blank labels are available only in england? because they're pressed there it's obvious! the problem with bootlegs or pirates is when you have to carry dozens of dem, and/or (worst) cross borders...


it's quite silly too to accuse djs... the djs promote music and artists! artists and record companies get money every time a dj or a radio play their songs... and when they have to play some white/blank label it's because the music business is not yet able to offer the product they want. so who's guilty?
I don't know where you come from but if someone here have djed he can confirm that demo is common for promotion...

I'd like to hear leggo rocker about promoting himself as a dj... podcast? upload? web radio? demo cd? video? is that really different from a promotional vinyl? please don't you see the hypocrisy...

I don't now why lion... but you seem a kind of taliban... you've got money into music or you try to get some, am I right?



PS: I finally found the "six pack" studio one 12 inch... did you know that a couple of songs exist only on this record? I'd like to let you hear them but unfortunately it's against the law

Oras - I see the point you are making - and also sympathise with what Lion is trying to say (after spending 18 months recording my dub album - I'd llike to get something back for it!).

You have missed an important point made earlier - most white labels are not bootlegs!! Just because it has white label doesn't mean it is not authorised! As I think I mentioned earlier, our vinyl release (as Bass2) was only ever produced as a white label - but was nevertheless totally genuinely our own music!

I think Lion is upset at people who sell bootlegs, not people who share dj mixes for promo purposes. As for legality, technically any unauthorised broadcasting - be it internet radio stream, podcast, mixtape or vinyl could be breaching copyright. This why there is such a fuss about internet radio and royalty payments. The US govt. is trying to pass legislation which will mean that internet radio broadcasters will have to pay a ridiculous amount in royalties, which will effectively kill off internet radio such as live 365.

MightyZ

www.myspace.com/mightyzallstars

Please remember that I actually have to pay several hundred dollars each year in royalty fees to broadcast my radio station.

All the music I play on live365 is in my collection (except the ska sets which are in MightyZ's) and I won't allow ANY record to be played on the station that isn't physically held ON VINYL by either of us. And I am 100% strict about this.

I also paid for every single one of my 12 inch 45s that I play out, I NEVER play Mp3s (or even CDs).

I realise that the system means it is unlikely that any of the money I pay for records and royalties is getting to the right people. But what am I to do?

I certainly cannot stop playing this music nor can I even consider not trying my absolute hardest to get the music into as many ears as possible.

And it is not about money, I haven't made a cent off the radio station, not one. And when I play out, the pay is so low that it doesn't even cover my travel expenses and could never hope to cover the cost of the records themselves!

MightyZ wrote:You have missed an important point made earlier - most white labels are not bootlegs!! Just because it has white label doesn't mean it is not authorised! As I think I mentioned earlier, our vinyl release (as Bass2) was only ever produced as a white label - but was nevertheless totally genuinely our own music!

As for legality, technically any unauthorised broadcasting - be it internet radio stream, podcast, mixtape or vinyl could be breaching copyright.

MightyZ

well it's obvious there are differences between bootlegs, mix, some authors making records without some permissions, and a fully legal release . it's just that Lion's point of view tends to ignore this... just like the laws...

these laws were made when the only way to hear music was to listen to live musicians, radio, or records at home...

the point is that music is changing, just have a look at jamaican music... orchestras then groups then producer recycling riddims to produce some new record then digital... today, making a record that sounds professionnal is possible working alone with computer and some equipment. and instead of paying studio, musicians, engineers, the youth of today are able to produce decent records using pre-existing material... do we want to forbid the spreading of new musical material?

and remember that whatever the media is, it's just a bit of plastic or vinyl... music is something else. even if leggo might get upset on this one...

the problem for jamaican music fans like us is that most of the records we'd like to own are unavailable... unless you can afford paying lot of money to some baldhead. I hate to pay Eur 30 for a 7 inch or 50 for a 12... I would be happier if it was allowed to press records that are not available on the market (paying decent royalties to the copyright owner)... so the money would go to the guy who took the risk to publish some obscure material...

Understand what you are saying Oras - especially the point about working alone at home and not paying studio fees.

I produced my album Mighty Dub on my own at home. Using Reason on my PC to generate Rhythms and fx samples, also using it as a sound module for the keyboard. Then I overlaid the Bass Guitar, Rhythm and Lead Guitars and Keyboards (plus a little percussion) by playing them live and recording it onto my digital multitracker. Thus saving thousands of pounds in studio time (it took 18 months to create on and off, I guess I would have needed about a month or two of studio time if I had done it in one block).
Obviously, I have had to invest in some equipment over the years to make this possible - but I can use this again and again.

For 5-6 years I have shared my music freely in mp3 form and when I first completed the album I sent many copies out free to Roots Archive members in order to get their thoughts on it. I only released it as a CD album, because it had always been an ambition of mine to release a proper dub album - it would be nice if this helped me recoup some of the money I spent making the music, but clearly this is not going to happen! In fact, it has just cost me more money to produce it in this way - but no matter - at least I have a product to be proud of!

One other thing though - you can buy a lot of really good Reggae vinyl for very little money - it isn't all expensive collector stuff! I don't have a problem with buying second hand as I know that I bought my fair share of new albums and the artists get sod all from the sales anyway!
I totally support the release of music through mp3 as it is a great way to spread your music worldwide - I would just prefer people to buy those mp3's off me (at lo cost of course) so that I can continue to invest time and money in my music - ideally I would like to be able to afford to just do music - but that ain't gonna happen!.

Unlike leggo - I do supplement my collection with mp3 downloads - but if I really like stuff, I try my best to buy it in a hard copy format.

MightyZ

PS go easy on Lion and Leggo - it is not that they are supporters of the Babylon music system - you only need to read other posts by them to see this! I think they would just like to see artists being paid for their talents, just like anybody doing any job. That way musicians like myself could earn money from what they do best, not from trying to fit in some regular job!
www.myspace.com/mightyzallstars

While writing for a living I saw some of my written and photographic work surface on Eastern European websites, without any payment or permission. So I know just how it feels to have hard work pirated to profit those who's only effort was to lift the stuff from a legitimate source. And it don't feel good.