Roots Archives Forum

to be honest: BUN BABYLON

bloody record-companys charge 16, 18 € fi a cd thats probably worthless after 10 years.....even new records cost less!

stop the bloodclaath price-politics and you will see more people will buy ya stuff


i´d say: go ape and flac and FLOOD the internet wid high-quality-lossless-rips!

RASpect

I'd be interested to know what technology these firms will use to monitor their customers' use and identify illegal piracy. Seems like the web has been through a whole lot of file-sharing program/sites, which are shut down or legalised when they get too much of a public face, a new one starts up, and the process continues.

Secondly, it's not clear whether providers are legally obliged to take up this option - if it's not a legal obligation, then it'll be interesting to watch the market respond to such a move on the part of some but not all providers.

Imho, it's because of not responding to the market, and keeping prices artificially inflated, that the record companies have only themselves to blame for the current situation - if they'd responded in a timely and positive fashion to new technologies, online filesharing/trading would look quite different now - but that doesn't mean that it's automatically fine to download anything and everything.

As discussed above, second-hand buying and selling gives nothing to the artist, either - to my mind, it's the fact of money changing hands that makes it acceptable to the System. Of course, in theory with s/hand there's still only one copy out there, rather than one copy replicating infinite times. But on the other hand, a lot of work is unavailable, except(sometimes) through secondhand or filesharing.

So I'd think about what the artist is currently making from their work, how (in what form, at what price, and at what remove from the artist) it's available to you, and what the artist will receive from your purchase, when making a decision about how to get hold of a recording... ethical capitalism is such an ugly phrase

As I pointed out, the lack of cash to an artist from a secondhand sale is not restricted to music. I painted and sold thousands of works of art in the 80s and got paid each time. But now, if the owner resells, I get nothing. But does that mean the owner shouldn't resell, or that the buyer should come find me and ask me for a new work? It's not really workable is it?

However, if I came across copies of my work circulating the Internet I'm tempted to think I might actually LIKE IT as it would increase my profile and if I was clever, I could use that increased profile to make some money. But if those copies were stopping people buying my present work, I'd be livid and would do my best to close it down. No point asking though, I think I've forgotten how to paint!

Same goes with books, if I buy a second hand book the author gets nothing. Or if I borrow a book from a friend, same problem! Does that make me a thief?

That's why I proposed a method of donating some micro payment to an artist for each download or file copied. Hard to make it work, obviously, but a nice thought, maybe? Maybe there should even be a tax on second hand records that is paid not to the Inland Revenue but to the recording artists.

One thing is for certain, this is a bloody minefield and it's really hard to see how it is going to resolve itself - apart from maybe with the total deconstruction of the present music business model. But at least pfudl would be happy!

Jah Glu wrote:Vinnie wrote :support the artist is a must!

Now thats a weak argument. you just said that you knew that you arent supporting artists (financially) when you buy a cd with them. I.E. you are not "stealing" from them by downloading.

did I??

buying vinyl or cd in shops is supporting the artist yes
downloading illegaly on the net it is not

it is only my personal opinion nothing more

i completely agree with you leggo

right on top!

How does the gov would monitor the use of the internet? Everytime i connect to internet from my computer the adress (IP something?!!address)is register.I imagine that the net managers would check the adress and the activity in case something ilegal is happenning.If they block my profile to access the internet i just change the IP address or can use another computer to do any download i want (if that the case).I doubt that the idea take full effect and prevent the piracy.The thing about downloads is that even if you don't fully aprove it neither you can refuse it.

***** Rootsman "I cannot see how this is an illegal practice as if it is not available to purchase in the first place because it has never been ressued since its original release then there is no one, ie producer / artist etc, losing royalties."

It really can't be hard to see that it's illegal. It's unauthorised copying of something you don't have the rights to. Simple.

I'm not disagreeing with your point of view, though. If the owner / producer of the work is not reissuing their catalogue because they are deceased, disinterested etc. etc. it's frustrating for us but so much of life is frustrating. I would download or trade a copy of out-of-print music but I don't expect it to be legal. I'm not that sure that it is particularly immoral, however, unlike the wholesale ripping and uploading of material that is on current release, which is bound to result in loss of sales.



***** Vinnie "Jah Glu wrote :People. Do you think that if you go out and buy an old Gregory Isaacs lp, gregory would get some of the money? You can't seriously think this!"

***** "no but when that album was bought when it was bought at the time in the shop gregory surely earned something on it and also if it were to be repressed"

You might like to think that an artist gets some money from a reissue but in reggae, how often does that really happen?


***** staas "i'm guessing most of you guys grew up in countries where music selection and disposable income are abundant, if that's the case then you simply can't understand,for millions of people the choice is between bootlegs or no music, downloading is not wrong,keeping music from people because they're poor is"

Keeping earnings from the poor (ie some of the artists) is also wrong. You need some basics to survive but, although desirable, music isn't one of those.


***** greg "who cares, i download free music all the time to see which artists i like the most, then i buy their albums, tell me how that hurts the artist."

That's the good side of the argument but do you really believe that those whose just download and NEVER buy do not also exist? If there was no free music to download maybe some still would not buy but you can be sure that some would.

I live in Sudamerica , here i cant buy cds in a reggae shop or something, i dont have credit card to buy via internet , so what the solution?? ....download....


bless

Mario wrote:I live in Sudamerica , here i cant buy cds in a reggae shop or something, i dont have credit card to buy via internet , so what the solution?? ....download....

bless

I live in England. I wasn't born rich and I don't earn loads of money. I can't afford a Mercedes Benz. What's the answer, steal one?

Or:

There's still lots of records I want to add to my collection. But I'm out of cash and can't afford to buy them. So I'll go to a reggae record shop or the house of another collector and steal his vinyl.

Same logic.

Your situation, even an unfavourable one, doesn't make it right to steal.

I think the law of karma is at work here...

But I do agree with Freddy C's point that it isn't particularly immoral to download stuff that isn't available and isn't likely to ever be available.

Freddy C wrote: * Vinnie "Jah Glu wrote :People. Do you think that if you go out and buy an old Gregory Isaacs lp, gregory would get some of the money? You can't seriously think this!"

* "no but when that album was bought when it was bought at the time in the shop gregory surely earned something on it and also if it were to be repressed"

You might like to think that an artist gets some money from a reissue but in reggae, how often does that really happen?

good question! i havent got a clue
normal procedure would be is to buy the rights of a tune
otherwise it would be bootleg that happens yes i dont buy those (when i know its a bootleg but thats not always easy to know)