Roots Archives Forum

Great topic y'all...just wanted to put my two cents in.

Obviously the subject of "what is Dancehall" is up in the air with no clear consensus...well, not officially.

In my understanding, Dancehall refers to the post-Marley (post relevance I should say), post-election practice of vocalizing over version sides of established singles...usually Studio One. The practice came out of the live dancehall experience and was deejay heavy. Rub a dub was merely another term for this practice...putting a sensual vocal over a dub seemed to create the right atmosphere to "rub" up on ya partner.

I seem to recall hearing the term "Dancehall" referring to (then) modern reggae around 87, 88, usually in reference to Yellowman who was popular with college students around that time. The Story of Jamaican Music comp on Island came out in '93(?) and referred to the sub-genre as "Dancehall."

I used to detest the dancehall music but now I think it's probably some of the most interesting made in reggae history. Especially regarding the Roots Radics/Junjo/Scientist angle. Hard hitting rhythms, superlative production and engineering. No wonder so many vintage singers like John Holt came around to Junjo for the full Volcano treatment.

As far as digital goes...I think some of it is really good but it really depends on my mood. I usually find myself reaching for a Johnny Clarke single or a Heptones LP but sometimes I'll put on a King Kong 45 or spin some Ujama. Not a big slackness fan but hey, some of it is pretty funny.

thanks for letting me have my say.

Thanks Franco - like you, I hated 80's "Dancehall" when I first heard it. In Boston (Mass, USA), the WERS "Rockers" radio show was playing Yellowman, Paul Blake, Eek-a-Mouse, etc. and I didn't get it at all. But the term "Dancehall" was actually a very useful one: it made me realize that the latest records from JA weren't made with people like me (white, Anglo/Euro) in mind. If the historians of Jamaican music are right, the dancehall massive has ALWAYS wanted something new, something exclusive. So "Dancehall" - slackness and digital included - was just the product of the time-honoured, fierce competitiveness to innovate and "make it new." The same drive that brought ska, rock steady, and reggae into the world... and "Roots" to the frontline in the 70's.

I haven't always been the first to take the new styles on board, but I try to stay open-minded to what each "new thing" has to offer, because Jamaican music has always been about the new; you only get great new stuff when the environment encourages experimentation and innovation. So big-up to the massive: If the dancehall pushes the music.... people like me sometimes get to ride the wave. Otherwise I would never have checked out Warrior King, Jah Cure, or even - back in the day - Black Uhuru!

Roots music IS the original Dancehall music...

Think about it: What was Tubbys Hometown Hi-Fi and Tippertone system playing back in the days of early reggae?? In the "dance halls" of their day??

Somewhere along the line, sum1 has gotten reggae music mixed up, by placing certain styles of reggae within categories that they have just got the wrong end of the stick with......overs??

we have to keep things in perspective - Tubby's Hometown Hi-Fi from '68 - '75 (Tubby's ended when it was shot up in 1975 by overzealous police in St. Thomas) was also a soul sound, playing A LOT of American R&B/soul of the day, as were a lot of sound systems. so, next to Horace Andy or Dennis Walks, you probably would have heard The Spinners or The O'Jays or whoever else was big in R&B at that time.

in an article i ran across in an early 70's issue of The Daily Gleaner (the leading light of all things uptown) there was a piece criticizing Merritone for playing *too much* R&B.... allegedly, the ratio was about 75% soul/25% reggae! and The Gleaner was complaining!

There isn't really a misconception here. Dancehalls were dancehalls well before reggae existed, and as others have stated 'dancehall music' in that context was whatever was played at dances - originally american R&B. Dancehall is also the name for a style of reggae from the late 70s onwards. Same word means two different things, neither is wrong. Why people insist on saying that calling late 70s/80s reggae 'dancehall' is 'wrong' because dancehalls existed for decades before is beyond me.

A "Dance Hall" in the English sense of the word, if you ask any elderly englishman/woman they wil tell you it is a Ballroom which played "danceable" sounds of the day, i.e Glenn Miller, old big-band stuff - so in that context Mike yes you're right...

However, sub-categorizing reggae produced between 1979 - 1985 and calling it "dancehall" while it may not be totally wrong, is quite misleading to the less-informed music listener. Reason being, there were many various topics, styles and subjects being covered in the music during this period, i.e roots, lovers, slackness, festival type songs, folk songs, its endless.
You had singers, DJ's, sing-jays (!!), chanters, harmony groups, crooners, wailers, the lot of 'em, all voicing their vox on top of so-called dancehall riddims..

In one way its good to differentiate between the different styles (or era's) of reggae, but on the other hand, i find far too often people will shun a label/artiste/producer just because they're more readily associated as being a "dancehall" act, in the process they are missing out on some of the best music thats come out of JA, just because they dont want to be seen to be selling out on their "roots" roots!!

Some of the rootsiest roots came out of the so-called dancehall period in reggae's rich and varied history, but for some reason these tunes are overlooked or under-rated.

Would you refer to a Spragga Benz "special" done for King Addies sound system, as Dub Music just because it happens to be a dubplate special?? I think not...
Why are certain tunes not categorized as "lawn music" or "sound music" ??

Its all reggae to me, as long as its got that formula which we all love and know as reggae, the hypnotic guitar chops, heavy drums and bass, the style created out of the Kingston heat of the mid-late 60's.
Too much divide and rule is not good for our music thats my opinion.....this is the thing that makes some people start saying foolishness such as "they dont like much of Bob Marleys Island output" or "digital reggae is not real reggae".....utter NONSENSE!!!

United we stand.

1 Love to 1 and all.......Jah Bless

Thank you Franco Nero and jahsteppa! To elaborate further, I've had conversations in person with people and I tell them I don't like the modern, extra fast tempo,etc. 90s-2000s reggae style as much. And the first thing every one of them say is "Oh you mean dancehall?" And after that I can't finish the conversation cause obviously they just don't have the music knowledge.

Junjo, one of the most popular producers at that time could get the Roots Radics and play hard riddims and artists of all different styles and themes will come in the studio at different times and record on the same music plate! From roots singers (Hugh Mundell, Wailing Souls, Johnny Osbourne) to a slack DJ like Clint Eastwood or General Echo or other DJs like Josey Wales or Toyan.

They can take an old Studio One record like "I Hold The Handle" or "Skylarking" or "Heavenless" and have a ton of producers recreate the riddims in more solid, heavier bass versions, and many from Dennis Brown to Lone Ranger to Sister Nancy to Tony Tuff to Early B. to General Echo to Linval Thompson will put their voice on it eventually. I mean this is all so deep to go into really, but I don't even use the word dancehall. I just say rocksteady or hard rub a dub or roots or something like that. A lot of people think the 70s were all Roots when there was "dancehall" existing all along. I just mostly prefer the more pure, raw music pre '86. You can have the same riddim with a singer on it and a DJ on it five seconds later. Too many people don't have the knowledge of the various riddims, producers, artists,etc.