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Re: who should hail as the king of reggae now?

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:44 am
by Max
If you search Roots-Archives for songs with the word "love" you get 4660 hits, search "Jah" and get 1649 ("rasta" 442 and "sweet" 458). I think LKJ has a good point [when he says](http://www.classical-reggae-interviews.org/lkj-reg.htm):

"You know, we should not stereotype reggae music and say reggae music is just about message or just about protest. It's a pop form just like any other pop form of which social commentary is a very important aspect."

By the way, LKJ is not rasta! But to be fair, of course I can see why Reggae would be called Rasta music, Rasta and Reggae are closely connected but the Rastafarians were not the only ones who made it what it is.

Re: who should hail as the king of reggae now?

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:42 am
by Siegi
jahsteppa wrote:As Bob said, reggae is a music created by rasta people. And if you need to go further back, the ska and rocksteady is music create by RASTA people. All these old artists, the Tommy McCooks, Lloyd Knibbs et al they were all rasta people, Don Drummond etc. Just because the music they played may not have mention anything bout rasta does not make the music any less rasta.

We have to remember that most of the pioneers of this scene were the ghetto people, sufferers, Garveyites, therefore rRASTA!!

Haile I.
Once more, reggae is music. Rastafari is a religion that influenced reggae heavily and positively in the 70-ties and 80-ties and that is it, not more not less. The only music that historically can be traced back in its origin to Rastafarians is Nyahbinghi. And also that can be debated.

But on the other hand believe what you want and works for you. I guess you and your brethrens are Rasta and only entiteled to the music. To play and to listen to it or to share the real reggae with the non believers. Because Reggae = Rasta.

But may be Iam wrong and it is for you just a feeling that Rasta and reggae is one because it is your identity. But historically you are not right.

But Iam a bit tired of orthodox religious people with their truth. This is a music Forum not a Religious Rastafari Forum.

Re: who should hail as the king of reggae now?

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:38 pm
by jahsteppa
Yeah true, reggae IS music and its a popular commercial music if I can call it that. And no i am not orthodox or religious in that sense, but the fact of the matter is that this music has its origins with the rasta people of Jamaica, whether you like it or not.
You cannot mention reggae without giving due credit to the originators, the rasta brethren from those times.

Who created the reggae sound? It was a natural progression from ska and rocksteady I guess, but those involved at the time of its inception (e.g. Toots, Bob Marley, Lee Perry) were mostly affiliated with rasta, even if they didnt publically declare it. And most of the rhythms patterns and stuff were taken directly from rasta drumming, thats why early reggae sounds markedly different to the rocksteady sound for example. Reggae drumming follows a lot of the binghi or burru drumming so if thats not rasta music then i dont know what is!!

Without sounding "orthodox" or "religious" thats the historical facts my friend........

Haile I

Re: who should hail as the king of reggae now?

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:57 pm
by Siegi
Historically

Reggae Origins with the rasta people?: the people you mention were at the beginning of the careers Christians till they became rasta. Those men werent born Rastas. But what has religion to do with it.

See more info on the Drumming. http://www.douglasewart.com/nyahbingidrum.cfm
Originated in Africa. Not Jamaica nor Rasta's. But I can understand you. Nyahbinghi developed the early drummings and infuenced reggae. But just like R&B did or the movies at the time did influence reggae on the beat or the lyrically part. And I think R&B was a greater influence then the drumming.

It wasnt that they turned Rasta and suddenly started to play Reggae. Just like I said what has Religion to with it. Besides the infuence on the lyrics and some customs.

What a good question is, is that, if Rastafarians wouldnt adopt reggae, would reggae still developed to what it is today or what it was back in the seventies. Seen the development of ska, rocksteady and early reggae without a strong Rasta involvement I would say yes. A part from the lyrics.

I tend to think the poverty and social and political inbalance and injustice at the time was a much greater force behind Reggae and also behind the Rasta movement. Those latter two influenced each other but are not the same.

It is nice to share views without being friends.

Re: who should hail as the king of reggae now?

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:50 am
by blakbeltjonez
jahsteppa wrote:As Bob said, reggae is a music created by rasta people. And if you need to go further back, the ska and rocksteady is music create by RASTA people. All these old artists, the Tommy McCooks, Lloyd Knibbs et al they were all rasta people, Don Drummond etc. Just because the music they played may not have mention anything bout rasta does not make the music any less rasta.

We have to remember that most of the pioneers of this scene were the ghetto people, sufferers, Garveyites, therefore rRASTA!!

@kalcidis: Yeah that Horace Andy LP may not mention rasta anywhere in it, but the message is rasta. Horace Andy was an ardent follower of Rastafari from those times, 60's etc so its natural that the message he put across would be rasta, even if not totally obvious to the listener.

Haile I.
reggae was certainly not exclusively created by Rastas in any case - just because Bob Marley said it does not make it true. Lyn Taitt is the man most mentioned for creating rocksteady, he was not a Rasta. most of the musicians weren't, or else they wouldn't have been able to work most live dates at clubs and hotels that paid real money. the generalization of all the old musicians as Rastas doesn't hold water.

and while the musicians may have played the music, it was the business men that made it possible - otherwise, not one record could have been made. i'm not trying to take anything away from the importance of Rastafari in reggae, but the reality is if it were not for:

Syrian-Jamaicans (Ken Khouri, - arguably
the most important man in the industry)
Chinese-Jamaicans (Byron Lee, Leslie Kong, Vince "Randy"
Chin)
white Jamaicans (Edward Seaga, Chris Blackwell - like
them or not)
and even Australians (Graeme Goodall - Mr. Goody, the
father of Jamaican engineering)

without them, there's no way that Jamaican music could have become what it is today, no way on earth. i don't care if there were 10 or 100 Bob Marleys. and like it or not, without Chris Blackwell's promotion, Bob Marley could not have attained his level of popularity worldwide.

*Jamaicans* made the music, not just Rastas. if it were all Rasta, it would NEVER have attained the popularity that it did, sorry, that is just fact. for every Bob Marley you need a Bob Andy,Ken Boothe,John Holt or Ernie Smith to appeal to all. all of them had the vast majority of their hits before any conversion to Rasta.

the music industry in Jamaica was primarily a money making enterprise that fed a lot of people every week, and the majority of popular music was bought by regular Jamaicans who were not Rastas and didn't identify with it. little by little the stigma of Rasta went away and it became more accepted for the most part by the mid 70's.

has Rastafari made a big contribution to reggae? undoubtably. has it done so exclusively? no, and i really get tired of seeing things twisted.

i have my own biases about reggae being a Jamaican thing, i'm definitely a purist but i think UK lover's rock is reggae.

if you care to research without bias, you can see for yourself that it was the efforts of "out of many, one people"

and it's a mistake to equate all sufferers, Garveyites, and Rastas. plenty of very poor Jamaicans are devoted churchgoers. and not all Garveyites accepted Selassie's divinity - Garvey himself was critical about his lack of black identity, and Selassie was not very interested in the ideas of Garvey. they were not enemies, but not friends.

the men who were probably most responsible for the popularity of Rastafari were Leonard Howell (Pinnacle settlement) in the 30's, and later Mortimo Planno - he got the audience with Selassie that Garvey never did in 1961, and was the liason for Selassie's visit to JA in 1966.

Re: who should hail as the king of reggae now?

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:52 am
by blakbeltjonez
and BTW, why exactly again do we need a "king of reggae", anyways?

Re: who should hail as the king of reggae now?

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:21 pm
by Inyaki
Blakbeltjonez' post.... + 1 !!!

Re: who should hail as the king of reggae now?

Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:09 am
by jumbo
+2

only Seaga is a Syrian; and even one of real Syrian descent (Aramean to be precise), not like Khouri, who is actually of Lebanese descent, like most so-called 'Syrians'

Re: who should hail as the king of reggae now?

Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:01 am
by blakbeltjonez
right you are, Jumbo - in actuality, Seaga is Syrian and Scottish... but i fell into the old rut and neglected to point out Ken Khouri's proper origins!


"Syrian" is, many times, a catch-all phrase in JA to describe those of Middle Eastern origin... just as the derogatory terms "Coolie" used to describe those of Indian or similar descent, and "Chiney" for Asian people.

Re: who should hail as the king of reggae now?

Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:47 am
by Inyaki
I thought 'syrian' was a catch-all geographical name in Jamaica cause when they emigrated ( late XIX / early XX )included current Lebanon and other currently existing countries. Not so much referring to the country.
A bit like in the 50s when they referred to 'west indians' in the UK.